New Rhetoric Lecture Videos on my YouTube and Vimeo Channels

Still struggling through the question of whether or not YouTube is a good place to host lecture videos for American students who often have to pay thousands of dollars anyway to take a course. I am sure I would resent having to watch advertisements before or during a video that provided important discussion of concepts for a course I had to take.

Vimeo is a much better option but Vimeo is expensive – at least the way I’d like to use it. I have the plan that I’m willing to pay for, which limits your uploads to about 5GB a week. I always run out of space right before I get the last video up for the week so that’s not really a problem. It’s just a really, really annoying thing that regularly happens.

Here are the new videos:

A discussion of Boudry, Paglieri, and Pigliucci, “The Fake, the Flimsy, and the Fallacious: Demarcating Arguments in Real Life” Argumentation 29, 4 (November 2015)

A discussion of Kenneth Burke, “The Virtues and Limitations of Debunking” from The Southern Review, v. 3, issue 4 (Spring 1938).

There are a few other ones on my YouTube channel. I’ll be posting more every week as I find and/or make ones that I think are more relevant to the general audience here.

There are Topics Not Worth Debating. How Do We Know?

Got a great question along with a great article from a friend last month, now I’m finally getting to it.

The simple response is, yes of course! But the more complex response is to examine how we should determine what debates are not worth having, and the criteria for this choice should be based not on debate’s limitations, but debate’s strengths.

Deborah Tannen’s best-selling book The Argument Culture might be somewhat dated now (it came out in 1999 I think) but it holds up thanks to people’s addiction to cable tv news programs, even if they are on YouTube.

The argument of the book is simply this: Bad models of debate are harmful to our ability to construct meaningful and useful social policy. Somewhat like the idea that taking too much or too little of a helpful medicine will kill you, debate, poorly dosed out will indeed destroy our ability to reason collectively, think through complex issues (which often requires more than one human mind I’m afraid), and make sure we have the appropriate perspective on whatever it is we are trying to sort through, evaluate, judge, enact, or any number of other verbs.

Tannen’s criteria is what we hope to avoid here. We don’t want to prop up reasons to not have debate based on debate’s weaknesses. We want to be able to say that debate’s strengths are why we should not engage it on every issue that seems like it would fit in the debate slot. Very much like kitchen equipment designed for certain purposes, using debate to make something that it’s not meant to make will render something inedible. This simple realization is lost on debate-critics who think that debate ruins what it touches no matter what you try to make with it.

In the article from Psyche Malcolm Keating provides an excellent explanation of how Naya philosophy in the 10th century did exactly what I’m looking for: Established a conception of choosing to debate because of what debate can provide, not in spite of debate’s limitations, faults, or nature. Naya philosophy prescribes some very good reasons to debate because of what debate provides or forces upon us when we agree to do it.

One of these is being open to changing your mind. Debate absolutely requires this, and the Naya philosophers accept this too. This isn’t simplistic zero-sum gaming, but the idea that what is said in the debate should influence how you articulate your views and hold your views from that moment forward. Douglas Ehninger in my field of rhetoric wrote beautifully about this in his essay “Argument as Method” which was published in 1970 (this definitely still holds up).

In that essay Ehninger isn’t discussing debate, per se, but he sets up exactly what you’d want in a debate to make it work. His model of the “corrector” versus the teacher or the authority figure is essential to the model. He argues that debating someone else must be predicated on the idea that you are as susceptible to quality reasons and believable evidence as the person you are engaging. In short, the rules apply to everyone. If something is convincing either way, it should be accepted by both. Please note how Plato’s Socrates seems to lampoon this model in most of the dialogues. We never see him alter his point of view although he does pretend to be surprised quite well like you would in front of a jury or something.

The point is that this model of debating excludes all topics that one couldn’t imagine holding up to that standard of conviction. There might be some issues we feel so strongly about that we would be unwilling to change our mind about them even given a lot of great evidence. In cases like this, we can soften that feeling by engaging in “switch-side” debating (as it’s called in the United States) where you are assigned a side of a topic and are supposed to craft arguments for something you might not believe or (even worse) don’t care about that much. This practice helps us make a stronger connection to the ideals of Ehninger-style argument as well as inform us about the various things going on in a number of controversies worldwide.

Keating does fall into the philosophical norm of viewing debate through a Platonic lens as a given, not a choice. Rhetoric, sophistry, and debate are all dismissed as packing materials for philosophy’s fine and delicate pieces because of these deeply held Platonic ideologies; there are very few who would consider the Sophists philosophers of any kind, even educational philosophers, because of this deeply held bias. Here we see it in characterizations of “unreflective” debate being ironically this very clever attempt to deceive, trick someone, or score points (all of which involve a lot of planning and strategy, so I never really get how or why these assumptions are made about it). To decieve someone you really have to get to know them, or get them to place a lot of trust in you, which requires at the minimum a workable model of human motives based on acute and accurate observation and study.

Philosophy’s attitude to debate is always, “We can debate in spite of the failings that people have.” The rhetorician’s attitude is, “Let’s talk about all the different ways we can debate.” It seems to me that without the Platonic ideology framing the Naya discussion of types of debate, these philosophers are perhaps more rhetorically inclined. Who else would come up with different kinds of debate for different purposes, then tell us to either do it or not based own what we think the value of the exchange might be? Keating seems to miss that truth is not a prerequisite here, but something that may or may not come out of one of the various modalities of debating these philosophers practiced. These are not opposed models, but different levels of practice that serve the purpose that all debate practice should have: To prepare the mind to change given the appropriate conditions.

Debating any topic at all with no conditions does not prepare the mind for much, only fuels the anger and frustration that we inappropriately aim at debating itself. As far as what topics do not qualify for debate, those we cannot subject to the ethics of good debate, i.e. “I’ll change my position if I find really good reasons to do so” are off the table. We can soften up that conviction by practicing the rival conviction, that of rhetorical reasoning, through doing some of the “lesser” forms of debating as Keating seems to want to call them, which give us a lot of insight into how human motives, language, and speech are intertwined in complex ways. This combination of various moving parts help us understand the complexities of commitment, and further our desire to hold the principle of rhetorical reason through debate as primary, and being right second. That’s the only way we can ensure that a topic will be treated appropriately and fully.

Keating’s essay has made me want to investigate these thinkers more as I think they can offer a very complex, necessary, and wonderful discrimination of modalities of debate that all serve the same purpose: To answer the question of what to debate and why to debate it. There’s no hierarchy here, only different modes of speaking for different purposes and people. This is the heart of the Sophistic position. It’s also a very human-centered ethic about how to change minds, given that it forwards how complex people are in their attitudes and beliefs.

So how do we know a topic shouldn’t be debated? I think we have to first get comfortable with the idea that there’s not just one “debate” out there, and we can thank Keating for that in this great essay. Secondly, we need to be honest about whether we are debating for the benefit of the topic and our own minds. Are we debating to correct course, or are we giving orders? Topics that we feel don’t require a course correction are difficult to debate unless we do a lot of low-stakes practice frequently with one another (which seems to be what the Naya philosophers were doing from what little I glean here). Low-stakes practice helps you see how wrong you can be and how often it can happen, encouraging an increased faith in the method of debate. Finally, there are topics that we might not want to debate that come up so often because we are bored, or tired, of having those debates. Audiences are good indicators of whether this is true or not. Often once we have engaged a topic many times we feel there’s nothing left to explore. But this is indicative of failing to uphold the debate ethic. We can only feel we’ve fully explored a topic if we think of the reasons and topic as being “out there” somewhere and not “here with us” in the form of audience. We also fail to uphold the debate ethic if we feel we have it right and couldn’t have it better through a re-articulation of our reasons before others who are mulling over those reasons, or who have a stronger hold on their convictions rather than on how they got to those convictions.

What Does Debate Teach?

The grave marker for Miyamoto Musashi, taken a...Image via Wikipedia

In the Hua-yen universe, where everything interpenetrates in identity and interdependence, where everything needs everything else, what is there which is not valuable? To throw away even a single chopstick as worthless is to set up a hierarchy of values which in the end will kill us in a way which no bullet can. In the Hua-yen universe, everything counts.

Debate teaches, whether you want it to or not. It is a discourse; it is discourse. It crafts and creates, it disentangles and disintegrates. It merges into thought and practice and the old, solid hierarchies melt away. 


Debate is serious business, but not in the way most people think it is. It’s a lot more than just “encouraging critical thought” or “developing public speaking skills.” It’s an orientation to language, within language – which would be a definition of a discourse. Scientific papers versus Newspapers – yes, they are different styles, but this goes deeper. There are relations of the material to the linguistic within them that cannot, and will not, be accepted by the other. And probably should not, if you allow me to toss my normative hat in the ring.


The question is not what debate provides – it’s more than skills. The question should be something like: What does debate do to the student? What sort of discourse is it? And what subjects does it teach/create?


I know that’s more than one question. But such a serious issue explodes into these sorts of questions. 


It’s as serious as that vital, incredibly vital moment of Gorgias where Socrates asks Gorgias about the culpability of the boxing teacher if the boxing student uses his skills to kill someone. 


Gorgias responds that there’s no culpability, if the teacher was just teaching skills. The student must go elsewhere for that ethical instruction. 


Socrates believes that the teaching of rhetoric is a bit different – that there’s an ethic smuggled in with the skills. Or perhaps the better interpretation is, there is a no-ethic smuggled in. This absence means that it’s quite possible for the student to use the skills “because he can.”


Socrates’s “physician” argument – that the well trained rhetor could come in and convince a city to hire him as the town doctor over a well trained doctor, but poor speaker – is pretty loaded, and pretty laughable. But I don’t think contemporary debaters or deabte coaches can answer this hypothetical very well. “Skills” and “civic participation” don’t cut it. Those are the language of the academy cum technical school, which is good at budget time, bad at any other time.


The answer I am working with is one of interconnectivity. Debate emphasizes how incredibly dependent on language we are for most everything. Debate emphasizes how incredibly limited language is for expressing our thoughts and feelings to one another. Debate emphasizes how bad we are at using language to get what we want – or even to express what we want.  We are dependent on it like fish are dependent on water. Whatever we put in the water, we have to breathe, we have to touch, we have to take in. This is one way to understand karma, through the lens of language. Debate can be a tide pool where we can watch such small scale introductions of words into the ecosystem. I am not a fan of this metaphor though, unless we understand that the ocean is already on its way back to the tide pool to re-absorb it. The return is happening already. There is no professional debate sports-league (thank god); there is no Debate Aquarium where you can live. Try as you might to avoid it, you will return to the sea. Or: The sea will return to you (more foreboding).


The ethic that I try to push is one of caution. One that is attentive to others instead of just attentive to the skills you develop yourself. One that is honest about what we are up to – the violence aspects – but the same one that caused Miyamoto Musashi to weep after defeating rival swordmasters. Every loss and every victory is a moment where the hierarchy can be reordered, where it will be reordered, and inattentiveness to those moments, careless articulation to others about those moments can lead to the blooming of an ethic that you don’t want, didn’t create, and now runs your life. Debate is just as good at crafting powerful attorneys as it is at creating hollow, crushed individuals. This is the difference between taking moments at a tournament carefully or taking them as you would the sports report.


I have used Musashi’s teachings for many years to teach debate. The reasons are his clarity of purpose – victory – and his underlying means of achieving it – pliancy. His theory of victory is one where water is supreme because it adjusts to what it faces. It’s flexible. In order to be this way, one must attend to the world instead of being against it. One must listen more than speak. One must figure out, ascribe, and re-ascribe the motives in other people. This is what the quote reminds us of – that every decision we make or choice we make is ours to suffer for. Hierarchy is inevitable, hierarchy is rhetorical. This is what debate teaches, at it’s deepest, unexplored levels. I am just starting my spelunking adventures. 


“Sportification” is, of course, the major undercurrent of this post. More on that later. The discourse of debate is like other discourses, as it crafts moments and opportunities for you to fill with language. What you fill it with is shaped by and is shaping your subjectivity. Reflection on how language touches your ear and mine is a necessary step in answering Socrates. For all we can share in this world, really share, is our words. And even that should be approached skeptically.

What Does Debate Teach?

The grave marker for Miyamoto Musashi, taken a...Image via Wikipedia

In the Hua-yen universe, where everything interpenetrates in identity and interdependence, where everything needs everything else, what is there which is not valuable? To throw away even a single chopstick as worthless is to set up a hierarchy of values which in the end will kill us in a way which no bullet can. In the Hua-yen universe, everything counts.

Debate teaches, whether you want it to or not. It is a discourse; it is discourse. It crafts and creates, it disentangles and disintegrates. It merges into thought and practice and the old, solid hierarchies melt away. 


Debate is serious business, but not in the way most people think it is. It’s a lot more than just “encouraging critical thought” or “developing public speaking skills.” It’s an orientation to language, within language – which would be a definition of a discourse. Scientific papers versus Newspapers – yes, they are different styles, but this goes deeper. There are relations of the material to the linguistic within them that cannot, and will not, be accepted by the other. And probably should not, if you allow me to toss my normative hat in the ring.


The question is not what debate provides – it’s more than skills. The question should be something like: What does debate do to the student? What sort of discourse is it? And what subjects does it teach/create?


I know that’s more than one question. But such a serious issue explodes into these sorts of questions. 


It’s as serious as that vital, incredibly vital moment of Gorgias where Socrates asks Gorgias about the culpability of the boxing teacher if the boxing student uses his skills to kill someone. 


Gorgias responds that there’s no culpability, if the teacher was just teaching skills. The student must go elsewhere for that ethical instruction. 


Socrates believes that the teaching of rhetoric is a bit different – that there’s an ethic smuggled in with the skills. Or perhaps the better interpretation is, there is a no-ethic smuggled in. This absence means that it’s quite possible for the student to use the skills “because he can.”


Socrates’s “physician” argument – that the well trained rhetor could come in and convince a city to hire him as the town doctor over a well trained doctor, but poor speaker – is pretty loaded, and pretty laughable. But I don’t think contemporary debaters or deabte coaches can answer this hypothetical very well. “Skills” and “civic participation” don’t cut it. Those are the language of the academy cum technical school, which is good at budget time, bad at any other time.


The answer I am working with is one of interconnectivity. Debate emphasizes how incredibly dependent on language we are for most everything. Debate emphasizes how incredibly limited language is for expressing our thoughts and feelings to one another. Debate emphasizes how bad we are at using language to get what we want – or even to express what we want.  We are dependent on it like fish are dependent on water. Whatever we put in the water, we have to breathe, we have to touch, we have to take in. This is one way to understand karma, through the lens of language. Debate can be a tide pool where we can watch such small scale introductions of words into the ecosystem. I am not a fan of this metaphor though, unless we understand that the ocean is already on its way back to the tide pool to re-absorb it. The return is happening already. There is no professional debate sports-league (thank god); there is no Debate Aquarium where you can live. Try as you might to avoid it, you will return to the sea. Or: The sea will return to you (more foreboding).


The ethic that I try to push is one of caution. One that is attentive to others instead of just attentive to the skills you develop yourself. One that is honest about what we are up to – the violence aspects – but the same one that caused Miyamoto Musashi to weep after defeating rival swordmasters. Every loss and every victory is a moment where the hierarchy can be reordered, where it will be reordered, and inattentiveness to those moments, careless articulation to others about those moments can lead to the blooming of an ethic that you don’t want, didn’t create, and now runs your life. Debate is just as good at crafting powerful attorneys as it is at creating hollow, crushed individuals. This is the difference between taking moments at a tournament carefully or taking them as you would the sports report.


I have used Musashi’s teachings for many years to teach debate. The reasons are his clarity of purpose – victory – and his underlying means of achieving it – pliancy. His theory of victory is one where water is supreme because it adjusts to what it faces. It’s flexible. In order to be this way, one must attend to the world instead of being against it. One must listen more than speak. One must figure out, ascribe, and re-ascribe the motives in other people. This is what the quote reminds us of – that every decision we make or choice we make is ours to suffer for. Hierarchy is inevitable, hierarchy is rhetorical. This is what debate teaches, at it’s deepest, unexplored levels. I am just starting my spelunking adventures. 


“Sportification” is, of course, the major undercurrent of this post. More on that later. The discourse of debate is like other discourses, as it crafts moments and opportunities for you to fill with language. What you fill it with is shaped by and is shaping your subjectivity. Reflection on how language touches your ear and mine is a necessary step in answering Socrates. For all we can share in this world, really share, is our words. And even that should be approached skeptically.

Rejecting the “Righteous Four”

Doing some last-minute preparation before our departure for New Haven in the morning for the Yale IV, which generally involves printing out maps, train schedules, hotel confirmation numbers and tax exemption forms. Prepping for a tournament is pretty easy after doing so many so close together – one of the things about adjusting to BP style is the run-up to the big tournament happens in the fall, since Worlds is held over the Winter intercession. This means spring is lighter in feeling, even though the U.S. Nationals is an important tournament. But it’s not the same as the October-December blast of tournaments. In policy debate, the run-up ends either in February/March, when the regional qualifiers for the NDT are held, or CEDA nationals, or perhaps both depending on your preferences and your orientation to and within debate.
One big difference was pretty clearly pointed out to me in a couple of conversations I had surrounding the Hart House tournament at The University of Toronto. This was a fabulous tournament, but a few American debaters started a conversation about how wrong it was that they might have been forced into taking positions they found morally offensive. They were ok with losing though because their arguments were “right.” I call this idea the “theory of the righteous four.”
This theory postulates that it’s not only fine, but morally acceptable to get ranked a four in a debate where you, by virtue of your position on the table, had to say or engage in argumentation that you find morally or ethically objectionable from your own political views. If you (rightly) refuse to engage, you will get ranked four. But that’s ok, because you are on the side of justice, rightness, virtue, and many other noble truths in life.
When I first came to coach in the Northeastern U.S. in 2001, I first encountered this idea. I found it baffling – a bizarre at best, unhealthy at worst conflation of speech in debate and personal politics. The best description I mustered to myself at the time was that it was a simple logical fallacy – substitution of effect for cause – that made people think, “because she’s saying this she must believe it.” But surely, only the most rank amateur would believe such a post hoc. But there were a number of students around the circuit that would say to me during the criticism, “Don’t you dare indict my voice.” The conflation of debate with personal advocacy I found then to be confusing and dangerous, and I believe the same thing now.
First, it’s a fallacy – probably a good idea to reject “effect for cause” reasoning. But the more critical claim at work here is the political function of a debate tournament. If you believe that debate is important because it is one of the last places where every idea can be treated on its merits with fair, critical evaluation then you have to accept, I think, that occasionally you will have to inhabit ideas that are not your own. These ideas are not always better ideas than your own; they can easily be ideas that you have had, or that you entertained and rejected on ethical or moral grounding. But either way, you should still embody them again, and in a manner that is not a straw dog, but a serious, strategic attempt at defending the idea.
The reason why is in service to debate as a whole. Good ideas glimmer more when the light of their alternative is present. Better, more persuasive accounts of thoughtful ideas can be crafted if someone smart is taking the other, more insidious side. Everyone benefits if a fair, persuasive attempt to represent all appropriate (read: kairotic) arguments are attempted in the debate. Relevancy and attention to nuance must be considered as well. In the end, the benefits of debate are extended when the debate is handled for the sake of debate, and not individual personal politics.
Here is what happens under the “righteous four” model – all of the discourse in debate shifts to the left. Instead of developing insights into argumentation that has a large representation in the public, the discourse becomes about “out-lefting” one another. If nobody will inhabit the “reprehensible” ground, then no chance appears for understanding why an argument we believe to be a priori “evil” would ever find assent. I would also suggest that those who refuse to take up objectionable positions within debates ensure a future of assent to those same reprehensible positions – they intellectually disarm all participants in the round from valuable defensive practice against such ideas. Just because you don’t prefer a certain weapon doesn’t mean that you should forgo training in how to defend yourself from that weapon.
A great example of this is the recent Hart House IV final round – This house would not contact undiscovered human populations. After a fairly good proposition case was established, the Opening Opposition speaker stood up and did something incredible – the first words out of her mouth were, “Madam Speaker, we kinda like exploitation.” Brilliant. Is it because it’s offensive? Because it’s rejected by modern conceptions of the good, liberal politics and the like? Is it because it advocates violence and mayhem and that’s cool? Not any of these. It’s because it is an argument that is both relevant and contains the potential for great intellectual investigation within the context of this debate.
The debate was framed around the idea that contact, historically, leads to exploitation. I think it is intellectually responsible in the service of debate to offer the idea that exploitation is a situational term. Politically, this loaded language can do a number on an audience. It is up to the skilled debater to give it the nuance and articulation it needs to become a believable point. Is it really exploitative in all cases? Is the connection definitely solid? And in which instances would we prefer “exploitation” over the alternative of no contact whatsoever? These are the major clash points that arise from entertaining an idea that many, especially those in the academy fields of anthropology, sociology and others would find to be a repugnant position. Everything hinges on the definition, and the nuance of the speaker in establishing that definition and its limit.
Unfortunately, the speaker backed off of pursuing this line of reasoning possibly due to the laughter and reaction of the audience. But it’s a shame she did. I think they could have won with a careful analysis of what this means, instead of the fear of a neo-liberal “bad word” can generate. “You said a dirty word” is not that persuasive a reason to reject someone, unless you are a High School teacher.
In certain debate communities, such as NPDA and American Policy debate, you can find regions where people do occupy ground where, if the audience is unskilled in the basics of debate practice, their personal view might be mistaken for their advocacy. I think we in the BP community want to provide the same excellent tradition of switch-side argumentation that these other communities have provided. Avoiding the sentimentally nice idea that “I lost because I refuse to compromise my principles” is a very important step in the service to much larger principles of intellectual rigor, argumentative development, and persuasive realism – all of which serve the members of the community in their development not as political radicals, but something much better: Moderates who critically examine public discourse and are not afraid to entertain the idea that they might not know it all, they might need more information, and more time might be needed to figure out what’s best – all of which work very well in the service of pluralistic democracy.